Bad Guys VS Good Guys
To my four year old, it's all very straightforward.
There are good guys and there are bad guys. No in-betweens. Unfortunately, life is not always so clearcut and neither should be our fictional worlds.
The important thing is to make our characters believable.
I just watched an old VanDamme movie in which the protag's closest family are mafia leaders. They're portrayed as good, if not a bit dangerous, for the first parts of the movie. But there comes a time when information is needed from a "bad" guy and these leaders get the info by interrogating the dirty cop. They yell, cuss and then (brace yourself) use a power tool to torture the man and eventually kill him. (My husband, btw, totally made fun of me at that scene. Apparently I was wearing a very scared face).
After that scene, my mind could not wrap around the fact that these men were "good". Yes, they were trying to track down a killer. And yet I was thinking, can people who kill in such a ruthless, cold-blooded way be trusted as good? Could I even like them anymore and root for them?
I lost my ability to believe in those characters. The dichotomy was too strong.
So, when crafting characters, when straddling that line between what makes a person "good" and what makes them "bad", how do you maintain balance? How do you keep the believability factor?
There are good guys and there are bad guys. No in-betweens. Unfortunately, life is not always so clearcut and neither should be our fictional worlds.
The important thing is to make our characters believable.
I just watched an old VanDamme movie in which the protag's closest family are mafia leaders. They're portrayed as good, if not a bit dangerous, for the first parts of the movie. But there comes a time when information is needed from a "bad" guy and these leaders get the info by interrogating the dirty cop. They yell, cuss and then (brace yourself) use a power tool to torture the man and eventually kill him. (My husband, btw, totally made fun of me at that scene. Apparently I was wearing a very scared face).
After that scene, my mind could not wrap around the fact that these men were "good". Yes, they were trying to track down a killer. And yet I was thinking, can people who kill in such a ruthless, cold-blooded way be trusted as good? Could I even like them anymore and root for them?
I lost my ability to believe in those characters. The dichotomy was too strong.
So, when crafting characters, when straddling that line between what makes a person "good" and what makes them "bad", how do you maintain balance? How do you keep the believability factor?
Comments
I'm with you on this movie, though, the choice of how we sin, to us humans, does make a difference in our acceptance. Though, I'm positive God doesn't think this way. I struggle not to rank sin as a human, but we so often tend to, regardless of what we know is right.
If we go overboard with our villian's, making them too harsh, ugly, in their actions, then it's hard for the reader to see the actions as warranted, I believe. It's a balancing act, I guess.
I think that's what it was. The characters went overboard into something that was downright disgusting.
You're also right that it has to do with the audience. Targeting is so important.
Even villians have some good traits, that are often hard to find, but that's what makes them real. The good guys also have some bad traits. For me, the challenge is to use the good and the bad traits of each to make great, believable characters.
So I guess the traits we give our peeps need to line up with their moral characters?
You're right. The villain's good traits do make them more real.
Lots of good points were made already. I'm in a quandary right now about this very issue because my antagonist in chapter one of my new WIP is involved in something so inhumane and heartless, I'm going to be hard pressed to find any good in him. But I do think I've found a soft spot. He LOVED his momma; but she died so he's very good to his old aunt who happens to be her twin sister. This doesn't redeem him, and that's good because I don't want to do that. But it does give him a more well rounded personality so he's not cardboard, like Kristen said above.
As for the hero, he can do something incredibly stupid at the beginning of the book, and be stubbborn and pigheaded, so long as he's not physically mean or abusive to the heroine or any living thing. That's what I have problems with ... a hero that has no respect for life at all. Anything else is redeemable. :-)
I wrote my first book because of the bad guy. I had to know what made him tick, and even though he's bad all the way through and he doesn't change, the glimmer of hope is there.
Jody is right. It's about clarifying motivation.
Think of the movie payback. The character Mel Gibson played was a bad guy in a sense, but he was a good, bad guy.
The same thing applies to the, Lestat character in Anne Rice's vampire books. He's hardly a saint, but you just have to love him. He is the perfect grey character. Not quite good, not quite bad but enough of whatever he needs to be to be complete and compelling.
I'm trying to make it to where my antagonist's motivation is to be accepted by the organization he's part of (one of the themes of the book is finding acceptance and a place to belong).
I don't know if I'm conveying it too well though as the chapters I've been having with him lately have him being rather ruthless. I initially didn't have that but then my critique group said he wasn't "bad" enough.
I do know that at the end, I do have his vulnerable side come out more, but it may be too late at that point. One more thing I'll have to work on improving. :)
Thanks for sharing all those juicy details about your story!
You and Eileen are right. But this makes me think of villains who don't have understandable motivations. Now it would be tough to make a character like that to be well-rounded.
Awesome examples! So very true with that grey area. I like how you mention complete and compelling. Definitely qualities all main characters should have, whether they're good or bad.
Well, if it's your antagonist then maybe he doesn't have to be likable? How are you portraying his thoughts? Even if his actions are bad, sometimes it's good to have the antag. think like a total jerk. LOL
Good luck badding him up. :-)
I can understand that struggle. Many people have said certain characters of mine are unlikeable, and these were characters who were supposed to be liked! It's tough. I guess we just have to make sure their positive attributes overshadow their negative. I don't know what your character is like, but maybe she goes and buys food for a homeless person even though she's a grump to everyone else. Smidgens of backstory are good to for creating likability. If she snaps someone's head off, it's good to point out that she's doing it because she feels vulnerable, rather than angry. Anyways, I know I have no clue what your story is about. Erk. Good luck with it!
Thanks for commenting. I'm learning so much just from reading all of your takes on this.
Lynnette Labelle
http://lynnettelabelle.blogspot.com
Cheers!
I'd also have a hard time viewing them as good guys. It comes down to maintaining the character's integrity. They can have human failings, but these guys crossed the line big time.
Blessings,
Susan :)
That sounds good to me! :-)
Yeah, be very glad. It bothered me big time. More than just grossing out, even.
You're right. It's not a human failing to torture someone. That's inhumane. Normal people can't do that.
Yuck.
That's true. The point is to make them believable, even in their cruelty. I just watched Australia last night and it was a good reminder that even ordinary "normal" people can be unbelievable cruel.
I have enough trouble keeping my own motives in check and trying to determine how much of my children's antagonistic behavior is worthy of discipline, and what is pure childish-ness. I don't think I could handle trying to come up with believable characters and evaluating their motives.
You novelists amaze me!!!
That sounds interesting. I haven't used any particular circumstance as an antagonist, although it's certainly an external conflict.
Children are wonderful fodder for writers. Definitely antagonists. *snicker*
Like you, I have trouble determining childishness from discipline-earning behavior.